What engine ?

For all Carb and Injection engines, standard or modified plus non-standard engine transplants. Heads; Blocks; Cooling (including heater issues related to the cooling system); Mounts etc

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monzajake
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What engine ?

Post by monzajake » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:24 pm

Taken from the old forum.
People have found this usefull to use.

There's been a heap of questions on engine conversions, so here's a rough guide as to what's what, what's good, and what's not.

I'll refer to each engine by it's first 2 letters of the engine number.

Stock Engines for Mk1
some of these may appear in an early Mk2:
I think there's some 1.1 and 1.3l engines that were also fitted, but if you've got one, keep it cos it's a bit of a novelty

JB - 1.5L 8v Carb Approx 70BHP
Found in mk1's and mk2's til '82
Simple upgrade to 1.8 EX Carb engine

FR - 1.6L 8v Carb Approx 85BHP
Found on GLS Model
Simple upgrade to 1.8 EX Carb engine

EG 1.6i, 8v Approx 110BHP, All injection models
This engine can compete happily with the 1.8 injection engines thus a KR would be a starting point for an upgrade as the fueling system is similar.

Any more for the mk1?

Stock Engines for Mk2
EW - 1.6l 8v carb approx 75BHp
Easy upgrade is to an EX as very little needs to be changed.

EX - 1.8l 8v carb approx 90BHp
Easy upgrade would be a KR on side-draught carbs. Fuel injection requires new pump and fuel lines.

DX - 1.8l 8v K-jet injection approx 110BHp
Easy upgrade would be a KR running K-jet injection.

KR - 1.8l 16v K-jet Injection approx 135BHp - Import (LHD) only

Non-Stock 'Upgrade' Engines

PB 1.8l 8v Approx 110BHp as stock.
Mechanically identical to the DX the PB comes with VW's Digifant electronic injection. Whilst not a drop in upgrade per-se, the Digifant injection is considered easier to tune and tweak in the 'chip' sense as modern injections systems are evolved from it, rather than the antiquated mechanical K-jet systems. The fact that the mk2 Golf Gti (amongst others) came with it from 86 onwards also adds an abundance of parts.

Personally i found the PB lump a lot happier to rev and abuse than a stock DX.

KR - 1.8l 16v Approx 135BHp as stock.
Found in later mk2 golfs ('86 on) Jettas, late 80's Passats and early 16v Corrados.
Comes with K-jet Injection which makes it an easy upgrade for DX owners. Fairly cheap and easy to come by if you're on a budget/timescale.

2E 2.0l 8v Approx 115BHp as stock.
Found in mk3 Golf & Vento, Passat and poverty spec Corrado.
Comes with a later management system to cope with a Catalytic converter. Popular conversion ditch the management system in favour of the simpler digifant or carbs. Some people report issues with underbonnet clearance and getting exhaust manifolds to line up as the block is taller than the 1.8 (only by 16mm though).
Again fairly cheap and easy to find.

3A 2.0l 8v Approx 110BHp as stock.
Found in late 80's Audi 80s and Coupe but are pretty rare now.
Nicknamed the 'bubbleblock' due to it's distinctive casting towards the bottom. Requires more ancillaries and brackets to be swapped around due to audi's insistence on mounting their engines longitudinally. Favoured by some over the 2E as the block is the same height as the 1.8. Came with K-jet injection.
Cheap ones are hard to find now.

ABA 2.0l 8v Approx 115BHp as stock.
Found in later mk3 golfs and bizarre imports. Same as the 2E for most cases.

PY 1.3l Supercharged 8v 115Bhp as stock
Found the mk2F polo G40
The product of the 'what if' school of engineering in Wolfsburg, a scaled down supercharger strapped to a 1298cc block. Designed for fit in a polo, then engine mounts are different to the Scirocco unless you've got a 1.1 or 1.3l model which is the ideal starting point for this sort of conversion.
Fairly hard to come by though, as has the same maintenance issues as the G60 engines I'll mention later. Good for turbocharging, and capable of some pretty high output figures.

9A 2.0l 16V Approx 135bhp as stock
Found in the Corrado and late 80/early 90's Passat.
Comes with KE-jet injection (a horrid fusion of K-jet and electronics) but some wussy mild profile cams to keep the emissions from roasting the catalytic converter that was fitted as stock. Cams from a KR (1.8l) engine are much fruitier and increase the output to somewhere around the 150BHp mark.
The block is the same height as the 1.8l so manifolds are easier to come by, and underbonnet clearance shouldn't be an issue. The easiest conversion is to use K-jet bits but knock/pinking can be an issue due to the capacity & compression - the 9A came with knock sensors to combat this, but they only work with the KE-jet injection.
Not as plentiful as the KR and 2E due to the limited demand for that engine when the VR6 was around.

6A/ACE 2.0l 16V Approx 135bhp as stock
Found in early 90's Audi's (typically Audi 80).
Longitudinal version of the 9A, ran on KE-jet with the mild cam. Possible to use the head and block as per 9A if you have the bits to convert to transverse mounting.

ABF 2.0l 16v Approx 150Bhp as stock
Found in the mk3 golf, and mid 90's passats, plus also the mk2 Ibiza Cupra and Toledo.
A younger engine than the 9A and comes with electronic Injection rather than KE-jet, thus allowing hotter cams and a better output from stock. More plentiful than the 9A too, though prices are higher due to the comparative youth and demand for conversions. Best installed with the (Motronic) management it came with. Has a taller block like the 2E though, so clearance may be an issue.

1H 1.8l Supercharged 8v 160Bhp
Found the mk2 Golf 'Rallye'
Essentially a tough-arse 1.8l 8v with a centrifugal supercharger bolted on. The head and block have been adapted to strengthen and lower the compression. The G60 supercharger is a potent bit of kit, but is quite fragile and requires religious servicing.
Hard to come by unless you've a lot of cash waiting.

PG 1.8l Supercharged 8v 160Bhp
Found in the Mk2 golf 'G60' the Corrado and a very few Passats of that era.
Similar to the above but has a tiny capacity increase (actually the 1H has a capacity decrease to fit FIA regs 1763cc as opposed to 1781cc). Not as rare as the 1H, but just as expensive. Same caveats wrt the charger.

Both the above would be good for turbocharging if you get one without the charger.

AAA 2.8l 12v VR6 174 BHp
Found in mk3 golfs Vento, and Passats of that time.
A tight squeeze into the rocco, but do-able. Requires some custom fabrication for engine mounts as the subframe is wildy different by this time. Quite a heavy lump too, and is know to really upset the handling of the lightweight mk1 golf. Comparitively expensive to get hold of, and much more work required to make it fit and run.

ABV 2.9l 12v VR6 190BHp
Found in the Corrado in addition to mk3 golf and passats.
The preferred VR6 of the era due to the added grunt, though all of the above (AAA) still applies.

(Both VR6 engines had a revised management system in later years that allowed a significant output boost through tweaking)

The 20vT engines..

Smaller and lighter than the VR6 with better tuning potential the 20vt lumps come in a variety of incarnations with subtle differences. Best to get engine, tranny and management as a job lot for an easy life, but you can chop & change. Expect to have to fabricate a cambelt side engine mount, but the rest will go across without too many issues. These are about as far as you can take it whilst keeping the front of the car recognisable as a VW. the 20vT engines have some serious potential, with outputs up to 500Bhp possible (with some serious effort).

There are about a dozen variants of the 20vt, which I can't really be bothered with listing them all, so here's a popular one.

AGU 1.8l 20v Turbo 150Bhp as stock.
late 90's and early 00's Audi A3, Golf and Boras
These are the preferred option due to the abundance and internal specs.

I've not covered anything exotic like audi 5 pots (too big), diesels(too diesely) or jet-turbines (too stupid). You can do your own research on those

I've not mentioned anything about transmission yet, basically most 4pot tranny is interchangeable if you keep the clutch and shifter mech with the gearbox - a 8v clutch won't go on a 16v box and later boxes have cable shift which'll need a bit of bulkhead butchery to make work. Someone with more cogbox enthusiasm can write their own FAQ on this.

Beyond carbs, you've got a choice of injection systems:

K-jet will do most things to a point, but you're limited on tuning.
KE-jet will carry on from K-jet with regard to knock supression, but is even more quirky than K-jet.
Digifant is simple, easy to find and well known by tuners. Later Motronic injection systems get more complex as they involve tighter emission controls and security/immobiliser features.

Aftermarket injection like DTA, Emerald and Weber-alpha can cost a lot, but homebrew solutions like Megasquirt are growing in popularity and userbase.

That's all for now..

Feel free to post up additions and errors and I'll correct the OP.

Contributors:
SkyRocketeer, Filmidget, 81 gti

Edit: Added mk1 engines and G40

Also ive taken this from the old forum, had a look over it and seems quite clear and usefull
click the like for info
http://mysite.verizon.net/janvdb/vw/Eng ... Swaps.html


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The Autoad
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Re: What engine ?

Post by The Autoad » Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:51 pm

Copy now in the faq.

This is what we like.


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KindredSpirit

Re: What engine ?

Post by KindredSpirit » Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:07 pm

Flippin' eck mate.
You should be on Mastermind!
:yahoo:



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Junglist
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Re: What engine ?

Post by Junglist » Fri Apr 03, 2009 12:53 am

I could never do any of this myself. How can I get someone else to do it for me and how much will it cost? I've got an 8v carb gt2 (EX i think) and I want over 120 bhp for as little dough as possible. Am I looking at 2 grand plus or what?


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wasted
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Re: What engine ?

Post by wasted » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:28 pm

Junglist wrote:I could never do any of this myself. How can I get someone else to do it for me and how much will it cost? I've got an 8v carb gt2 (EX i think) and I want over 120 bhp for as little dough as possible. Am I looking at 2 grand plus or what?
If you're after an engine swap, you're looking at the engine itself, the loom, fuel system (if you don't re-use carbs) and various other sundries. Could involve fashioning engine mounts, even. Also have to consider the brakes and drivetrain depending on how much power you're after.

All this taken into consideration, a straight swap to a 16V KR is probably the easiest if you currently have a 1.8 8v - I think I saw quotes a while back from the Phirm for around £2k upwards when you supply the engine yourself.

Others will probably be able to correct me on this!

I think the more economical way to get to 120bhp is probably mods on the existing engine - camshaft, vernier pulleys, etc etc. You're only talking a 10bhp increase.


'89 Scala 1.8i - Daily drive, Work in progress!

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Junglist
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Re: What engine ?

Post by Junglist » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:20 pm

That still only takes me to a hundred. Anyone tried these E-Ram electronic inline superchargers? Not a proper supercharger, just shove more air down your pipes! They're £400 over here but you can get them for $200 in the states, $40 shipping. Apparently they give you 15% more power but I've never heard confirmation from someone who's fitted one. If it's true, it's an amazing bargain for around £150. Just a bit sceptical til I hear a good review. My tuning bloke recommended it but they sponsor him.


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wasted
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Re: What engine ?

Post by wasted » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:28 pm

I'd strongly recommend against fitting any form of supercharger to an engine it wasn't designed for. Can result in blown seals, gaskets, even pistons due to extra pressure in the cylinders. Better to save up and get another engine - or a new car.
By the way - misread what you said about the power increase. For some reason I thought you had a DX engine!

Edit: by the way, that supercharger - if it gives you 15% extra and that's a top end estimate, that's still only an extra 13.5 bhp. Not really worth it.


'89 Scala 1.8i - Daily drive, Work in progress!