Another re fettle

In car entertainment: stereo; speakers; portable devices etc

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MrD
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Another re fettle

Post by MrD » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:08 pm

Not had much work on today,so been out having a re think about my sound install.
Not sure where the last thread went that i started ,so will just bung this up,was putting some Sony e plod 6x9`s in where the rear cards were,but have given up on that idea,and started in a different place.

Speakers in rear cards

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Attempt number 2 behind the seats,facing my ears...

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Have a 400w amp running the sub,then another 200w amp running the 6x9`s and some tweeters mounted on the roll cage,facing me.
Needs quite a bit more work yet,and not sure what i will cover it with,possibly some very then fire proof carpet,or black sticky back plastic,in a Blue peter stylee


6 point cage,Koni`s,lower front brace,rear brace,goodridge hoses,4,2,1,supersprint back box,k+n,kent gs2h,vernier,skimmed and ported head,alloy fuel tank.catch tank,Short shift ,9A soon.
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Mr Funk
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Re: Another re fettle

Post by Mr Funk » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:09 am

Crikey, what does it sound like? Must be a bit odd having the sound thrown behind the seat, seems a bit of a waste. Its early and I'm fuzzy eyed but are you running tweeters with no mids?


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MrD
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Re: Another re fettle

Post by MrD » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:04 am

Honestly not fired it up yet,gotta sound better than it did when they were in the rear card bit`s.
Have a set of tweets in the front,and will possibly put the 4x3`s back in the doors,if it sounds poo :blush:


6 point cage,Koni`s,lower front brace,rear brace,goodridge hoses,4,2,1,supersprint back box,k+n,kent gs2h,vernier,skimmed and ported head,alloy fuel tank.catch tank,Short shift ,9A soon.
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Mr Funk
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Re: Another re fettle

Post by Mr Funk » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:23 am

What was wrong with it last time?
Have you thought about some Dynamat? Cracking stuff, takes away a load of rattles you get when you strip the car and gets rid of that horrendous tinny noise from the speakers.


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MrD
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Re: Another re fettle

Post by MrD » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:14 pm

What was wrong with it last time?
Was not happy with the fit Mr Funk :blush: I tried making up templates,but as the rear cards are on different levels,i couldn`t get a decent enough fit,to be happy,i am a perfectionist in my mind,but very rarely get a result that i am happy with,so i just keep trying different approaches.
Think the ply i am currently using is a little bit too thick too,as there is no give in it what so ever,last ones were made up of mdf..
I am using that foam stuff,that looks like egg trays at the moment,but will have dynamat as soon as i get the fit right.
Only rattles i had were from where the ply was banging about,through not being fixed down properly..
Only using the 6x9`s as they were free,came out the wife`s golf,as she does not have a stereo fitted as yet,will possibly get a couple of those Pioneer thin subs,to pop in there,and then look at a location to mount some mid range in the front,options are limited there though,although i have some chopped up home cinema speakers which could possibly be fettled to fit somewhere

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Possibly some sort of door build ?


6 point cage,Koni`s,lower front brace,rear brace,goodridge hoses,4,2,1,supersprint back box,k+n,kent gs2h,vernier,skimmed and ported head,alloy fuel tank.catch tank,Short shift ,9A soon.
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stu.gtx
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Re: Another re fettle

Post by stu.gtx » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:35 pm

MrD wrote:
i have some chopped up home cinema speakers which could possibly be fettled to fit somewhere

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Possibly some sort of door build ?
Don't do it.

The resistance will be wrong for a start.

I've bought some cheapy 6x9's in the past and for the money they sounded ok when amped up. My mate had some Kappa's and they were excellent with just a high-powered head unit. To get a decent sound from them they need to have some sort of enclosure on the rear though. You won't get a good sound from them if they're nailed to a board with no space behind them. Even worse if they're firing sound straight into the back of the seats as they'll be muffled. If you have an amp/sub and the low pass/high pass filter on then the 6x9's will be wasted because they won't be playing any low-frequencies. They're meant to be all-rounders. WIth a big sub like that sat behind your head you really need something decent up-front to compete with the bass - home made door builds or the like with some decent components.

You'd be better off going for quality over noise but depends what you want to get out of your system.



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Re: Another re fettle

Post by MrD » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:34 pm

The fusion amp is running the sub,then the other amp is running the 6x9`s and the tweeters in the front,sounds ok,but when i crank it up it feels like being punched in the kidney`s.
I have the other amp turned right down,and in all honesty it sounds much better than where they were mounted before,and it sounds great up to about 30 on the head unit,which goes to 50,any more and the car starts to shake.
I am not much of an audiophile,i have ruined my ears,being a dj,for years,and standing next to the bass bins at Brixton academy,and various other venues,i always had comments from other dj`s about how loud i had the monitors turned up.
Have played some nine inch nails through it,closer being a fave,not sure that anyone within ear shot would agree

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVgBuwM9zcQ

Won`t be using those speakers,would like some Rainbow components,for the front one day,it`s just mounting them,as i really want to take the door cards off and just have alloy sheet there.
Not into comfort,my car is quite agricultural


6 point cage,Koni`s,lower front brace,rear brace,goodridge hoses,4,2,1,supersprint back box,k+n,kent gs2h,vernier,skimmed and ported head,alloy fuel tank.catch tank,Short shift ,9A soon.
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stu.gtx
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Re: Another re fettle

Post by stu.gtx » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:54 pm

I set mine up like this:

Turn the sub off
Set the gain on the amp so the speakers (vocals) aren't distorted at full volume on the head unit. This will take some messing about with on the head unit and depends what sort of music you normally listen to.
Once you're happy with that then introduce the sub. and set the low pass/high pass filters as desired.

That should make it sound better quality and be less 'boomy'


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fonzooorooo
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Re: Another re fettle

Post by fonzooorooo » Thu Oct 07, 2010 9:35 am

I'll appologise for this upfront -

To get the bass sounding truely right from the 6x9"s, the ultimate scenario would be to build a cabinet for them... Of the correct internal volume. ... Which'd involve you getting all the theile-small parameters for the drivers. Safe to say this is unlikely to happen as you only tend to get about 4 statistics on the "specifications" of car audio stuff... Typically, 6x9s tend to be installed effectively in "free air" ( bendy parcel shelf over a boot, the volume of which is immense when compared to the displacement of the speaker cone) ... what I'm getting at here is that I doubt you've got enough air behind them, and if you have, you're likely to have the out of phase sound from the rear of the speakers leaking out round the edges of your ply baffle. ... so the bass'll be cancelling itself out to some extent. You then have to raise the crossover point on the sub, upshot being that you start to hear WHERE the bass is coming from.

This could be the exact same reason you weren't happy with the speakers in the rear "door" cards... they were firing directly at each other, and cancelling out at mid distance.

At the moment, you'll be losing a lot of mid range into the seats. You'll be compensating with more treble from the tweeters, and struggling to get the bass "right".

If it were me, I'd build boxes to angle the speakers further upwards, probably round the front of the rear wheel arch area, and mount your 6x9"s there, so they point at your head, but not at each other.

If you're amping them seperately, I see no issue with the home cinema speakers. They'd be unlikely to work well if fed simultaneously with "car" speakers, but with independant amp with crossover they should work fine. I'd go a bit higher with the high pass filter though... especially if you're chopping the cabinet down - perhaps 250 - 300Hz... Try it - what's the worst that can happen?!

Then set up as described by Stu - set gain on vocals front first, then ballance into the rear, setting high pass filters as you go then power up the sub, not playing it too loud, till you've set the crossover (low pass) so there aren't any missing notes in the bass, and others aren't too loud. You'll end up with the low pass for the sub set lower in pitch than the high pass for the speakers, as these are both filters, rolling off at a number of decibels per octave. The steeper this slope (more dB/8ve) , the closer you can get to the same crossover point, but if you get a "muddy" bass sound, try reducing the frequency of the low pass first, then slightly raise the high pass on the speakers.

Tweeters are a minefield. If your hearing has suffered already, it's high frequency that goes first, so unless you cross over relatively low to your tweeters, you may find yourself running them very hard and getting very little from them. If they've got capacitors wired in from the factory, that's all the crossover they need. Don't remove these to set up an electronic crossover at a lower pitch, as you'll just kill the tweeters.