Original Scirocco GTX 16v Rebuild

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G Beats
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Re: Original 16v Rocco Project

Post by G Beats » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:09 am

[Hi seen this 1 at bristol volks fest that year 2007 frist year we went meet the owner he was from bristol the same as us was brought by his dad from gloss i belive brand new or bristol, and was stored in a barn for years now he was selling i told him they were rar, darren from cornwall off here i was with said there were only 9 left in the country now of the inported 1s? is this true GTXTRA ? I told the guy it cold do a respray back then i said he could get £2,000 for it or more if did the body work but looks like now as i have seen the pics on here it needs the wing sorting ie another better 1 and polshing with g7 to bring the faded red back, What happend to the car ? were did it go to is it still in bristol does anybody know ? many thanx Gavin.


quote="GTXTRA"]
jbo wrote:Sean...forgot to say...ive just had a look through the hugeee amounts od paperwork with the car and it seeems it was some sort of low spec model gtx?! No electric windows or central locking. Im gonna have to move it all out of my other gtx...again! aarrgghhh!

Jason

ok, they did two versions of the 16v in europe - a gt and a gtx spec. explains the seat swap.

here's some factory brochure shots of a gtx and a gt spec car-
Image
Image

the cars that came over as part of the '10' were all gtx uk spec + leccy windows and of course lhd. here is one of them -


Image
Image
Image
Image
Image[/quote]


G Beats.Been into MK 2 V.W Sciroccos since 98.Now on my fourth MK 2 Scirocco. R.I.P two MK 2 Scala DX Engine's.Sold GT 2.

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Reverend Frog
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Re: Original Scirocco GTX 16v Rebuild

Post by Reverend Frog » Wed Aug 11, 2010 8:16 pm

does anyone know if this car is still for sale? i know it was a while ago


Previously owned:
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1988 1.6 GT
1989 1.8 GT
1982 1.6 GTI
1993 Corrado VR6

G Beats
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Re: Original Scirocco GTX 16v Rebuild

Post by G Beats » Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:49 pm

Yeah as i said m8 in 2007 july it was at bristol volks vest were i seen it for sale and looked at the car and spoke to the owner i dont know after that, the only person i can think that might know who was there at the time was darren from cornwall down this way in the south west, he said there were 9 out of the 10 left that were in ported into the uk does anybody know this is true on here ? as the buying guide in aug 2007 vw performance says there was 10 in ported to the country as well?
Reverend Frog wrote:does anyone know if this car is still for sale? i know it was a while ago


G Beats.Been into MK 2 V.W Sciroccos since 98.Now on my fourth MK 2 Scirocco. R.I.P two MK 2 Scala DX Engine's.Sold GT 2.

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jbo
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Re: Original Scirocco GTX 16v Rebuild

Post by jbo » Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:49 am

Out of the original 10 there are no more than 8 left. I was searching the web a while ago and a guy mentioned ona forum that he used to have one but the council came and took it away?! I didnt know there were any offical rhd conversion imports until i saw mine for sale on here.

Jason



G Beats
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Re: Original Scirocco GTX 16v Rebuild

Post by G Beats » Sat Aug 21, 2010 3:26 am

jbo wrote:Out of the original 10 there are no more than 8 left. I was searching the web a while ago and a guy mentioned ona forum that he used to have one but the council came and took it away?! I didnt know there were any offical rhd conversion imports until i saw mine for sale on here.

Jason
Ok thats a real shame only 8 left damn.


G Beats.Been into MK 2 V.W Sciroccos since 98.Now on my fourth MK 2 Scirocco. R.I.P two MK 2 Scala DX Engine's.Sold GT 2.

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jbo
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Re: Original Scirocco GTX 16v Rebuild

Post by jbo » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:38 pm

Hi All,

It's been quite a few months of not havign much enthusiasm for workign on the car. I only really drive it on the weekend so jsut kept it clean and a bit of fuel in the tank.

My little sister had come into a bit of cash for her 21st bday so decided to buy a mk1 cabrio. It was a nice car but really needed the brakes doing as it only felt like 3 were working?! lol. I convinced her to but alot more such as strutbraces, full exhause system, manifold, brakes and braided lines. I booked her car into the phirm to get the parts installed as it was not too far from mine and ive seen good opinions on here. As they were quite busy she coudlnt get it booked in for two weeks so I let her drive my golf and i used the rocco ful time. :hugegrin:

On the day of the booking after loading the car with all the parts she pulled out of a junction in the new forest and crashed into the car in front and crushed the offside chasis leg pretty badly! ....a write off basically! Shes ok but quite annoyed that she had bought everythgin and now cant use it.

Her writing her car off gave me even more appreciaton for my own. My sis kindly gave me some of the money she got so I have paid off all my debts, bought soem useless crap and have a bit left for finally finishng this damn car!!! :yup:

After much ponderign and talking to the guy at CFM Engineering Ltd in Reading we decided on the following-

Bare metal respray
Decent -40mm suspension kit
Dubpower manifold
Complete repoly bush
Brand new 280mm brake setup
Repalcement of any worn compnents under the car

Engine -

2.0 9a engine cleaned and stripped
rally spec head with
fully forged pistons
lightened/balanced internal
uprated clutch
lightened balanced flywheel
newman rally cams
decked block to raise comp to 12.5
gasflowed ported polished head
gasflowed ported polished manifolds + thtottle body
fully rolling road

All of this will still be runign on kjet! I know a stadalone management will be better but I want to keep this car close to oem still but with ridiculos amoutn of power! :nerner:

This is all happenign at the moment so I willl post up pics as I receive them.

Ive also priced up every external seal, clip etc to really make the car look brand new.

I cant wait!!!!!!



MikeH
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Re: Original Scirocco GTX 16v Rebuild

Post by MikeH » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:32 pm

Your sis must have come into lots of money to do all that!

From experience I'd forget about the cams and fancy pistons and go for megasquirt. You'll get more power for less money and better driveability. I'd also say you'd be better fitting a lower spec engine and spending the money on a Quaife diff. You're really going to struggle to put the power down in that setup.

A stock-ish ABF with a ported head on megasquirt of remapped digifant from the ABF, will get you around 170-180 bhp. Kjet won't be all that well suited to a high compression motor with lairy cams. You can make it work, but it'll be a compromised setup.

At the end of the day though, it's your money. I hope you get it finished and enjoy the car afterwards.


1992 Scala ABF - SOLD
1989 Scala track toy. Dormant
1986 GTX - Lunar mileage but still a good un
Mk1 Classic Touring Car Project...slowly does it
1984 1.6 GT Project. 69k In progress
1.6GL. 2 Owners, 60k. SOLD
1.6 GL - 100k miles -Back on the road!

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jbo
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Re: Original Scirocco GTX 16v Rebuild

Post by jbo » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:20 pm

Hi Mike,

Yes.. a huge amount! :hugegrin:

Unfortunately the work is already in progress so I've gone past the point of no return! The guy building the engines has the exact same setup in his car but he is runnning ms. I decided to keep it as I wanted some originality with the car. The kjet should be more than cabable to provide the 240bhp he is expectign to run with it. I have replaced the injectors and pump with oem parts quite recently.

I already had 157bhp on the old knackered engien so changign the head and runign ms jsut to brign it to 170-180 woudl be a huge waste of cash for the small gains.

I agree with what you're sayin about putting the power down, I am planning on runnign very good tires so that may help a tad. Another thign ive been ponderign is launch control. But for this I would need to install wheel sensors and upgrade to an electric management system so the injectors can be cut when the sensors pick up slip. It would be cheaper to install a lsd liek ya said so i may do this in the future along with a box rebuild.

I'll see how it goes when i get it back in a cpl of weeks! :-)

Jason



MikeH
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Re: Original Scirocco GTX 16v Rebuild

Post by MikeH » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:30 pm

You're being fed a bit of bull there. No 2.0 valver on Kjet will get near that BHP number, unless it's got a turbo on it as well. However, you don't need anywhere near that to make the car VERY quick indeed. You should get 190-200 bhp tops, depending on cam choice. Even VW didn't get near that on the group A rally engines, running on special VW Motorsport versions of Kjet. There's some info on these engine power outputs on Club GTI if you want to know more.


1992 Scala ABF - SOLD
1989 Scala track toy. Dormant
1986 GTX - Lunar mileage but still a good un
Mk1 Classic Touring Car Project...slowly does it
1984 1.6 GT Project. 69k In progress
1.6GL. 2 Owners, 60k. SOLD
1.6 GL - 100k miles -Back on the road!

Roxylife
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Re: Original Scirocco GTX 16v Rebuild

Post by Roxylife » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:24 pm

MikeH wrote:You're being fed a bit of bull there. No 2.0 valver on Kjet will get near that BHP number, unless it's got a turbo on it as well. However, you don't need anywhere near that to make the car VERY quick indeed. You should get 190-200 bhp tops, depending on cam choice. Even VW didn't get near that on the group A rally engines, running on special VW Motorsport versions of Kjet. There's some info on these engine power outputs on Club GTI if you want to know more.
K-jet fuelling is more than capable of fuelling upwards of 200bhp. The K-jet fuelling wont be your weak link, it will be the ignition system which isnt up to much more than a std engine. Especially with high comp pistons.


Motorsport is my passion.

MikeH
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Re: Original Scirocco GTX 16v Rebuild

Post by MikeH » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:50 am

jbo wrote:Hi Mike,

Yes.. a huge amount! :hugegrin:

Unfortunately the work is already in progress so I've gone past the point of no return! The guy building the engines has the exact same setup in his car but he is runnning ms. I decided to keep it as I wanted some originality with the car. The kjet should be more than cabable to provide the 240bhp he is expectign to run with it. I have replaced the injectors and pump with oem parts quite recently.

I already had 157bhp on the old knackered engien so changign the head and runign ms jsut to brign it to 170-180 woudl be a huge waste of cash for the small gains.

I agree with what you're sayin about putting the power down, I am planning on runnign very good tires so that may help a tad. Another thign ive been ponderign is launch control. But for this I would need to install wheel sensors and upgrade to an electric management system so the injectors can be cut when the sensors pick up slip. It would be cheaper to install a lsd liek ya said so i may do this in the future along with a box rebuild.

I'll see how it goes when i get it back in a cpl of weeks! :-)

Jason
157 bhp on a tired KR sounds like a case of Dyno Lottery Pub Numbers. I was talking about a real 170-180 bhp. It's hard to know whose numbers to trust, unless you have a lot of experience of different dynos. It's generally in the interest of operators to give out optimistic numbers - customers are happier when you give them good news.

Launch control might help a bit, but it works by cutting the power, rather than giving you more grip, so you're still not actually getting the power down. You need a change of diff, which will get you moved to a bolted setup, rather than waiting for the day the old VW diff rivets go pop - and with 200-ish bhp, it won't be long. I'm running a Mk2 Rocco with about 140bhp (real 140 bhp, with a fat torque spread from 1500 rpm up). Even on Toyo R888s the Quaife diff made a lot of difference when I fitted it, especially around tighter bends. If you're building the car for street cruising, it's less important than if you plan to use it for track days, sprints, or whatever.


1992 Scala ABF - SOLD
1989 Scala track toy. Dormant
1986 GTX - Lunar mileage but still a good un
Mk1 Classic Touring Car Project...slowly does it
1984 1.6 GT Project. 69k In progress
1.6GL. 2 Owners, 60k. SOLD
1.6 GL - 100k miles -Back on the road!

MikeH
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Re: Original Scirocco GTX 16v Rebuild

Post by MikeH » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:54 am

Roxylife wrote:
MikeH wrote:You're being fed a bit of bull there. No 2.0 valver on Kjet will get near that BHP number, unless it's got a turbo on it as well. However, you don't need anywhere near that to make the car VERY quick indeed. You should get 190-200 bhp tops, depending on cam choice. Even VW didn't get near that on the group A rally engines, running on special VW Motorsport versions of Kjet. There's some info on these engine power outputs on Club GTI if you want to know more.
K-jet fuelling is more than capable of fuelling upwards of 200bhp. The K-jet fuelling wont be your weak link, it will be the ignition system which isnt up to much more than a std engine. Especially with high comp pistons.
Mk3 Golf Works 16v Engine on Mappable ignition and a plenum
Golf 3 Group A* ABF 1984cc 82.5mm 92.8mm 159mm wet 1994 219bhp 173lb/ft 11.5 8,100 **** VW Digifant Std plenum Lehmann

Mk2 1800 Works 16v Engine on Kjet
Golf 2 Group A rally* KR 1781cc 81mm 86.4mm 144mm wet 1987 200bhp @ 7,500rpm K-jetronic Std plenum Lehmann

With the best will in the world, if the might of VW and Lehmann's development resources could get 200 bhp from an 1800 KR, then I wouldn't expect much more than that in a 2.0 from a local engine builder, even with some experience of similar builds to yours.


1992 Scala ABF - SOLD
1989 Scala track toy. Dormant
1986 GTX - Lunar mileage but still a good un
Mk1 Classic Touring Car Project...slowly does it
1984 1.6 GT Project. 69k In progress
1.6GL. 2 Owners, 60k. SOLD
1.6 GL - 100k miles -Back on the road!

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jbo
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Re: Original Scirocco GTX 16v Rebuild

Post by jbo » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:21 am

Let's see what it puts out when i get the car in a couple of weeks! :vcool:

Jason



Roxylife
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Re: Original Scirocco GTX 16v Rebuild

Post by Roxylife » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:34 am

With all due respect, I could ride my pushbike on CFM rollers and get 23bhp.. :chill:

(Yes ive been there, yes ive spoken to them, and yes im seen the figures from a few of their RR days) - And my mate Mike works there!


Motorsport is my passion.

MikeH
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Re: Original Scirocco GTX 16v Rebuild

Post by MikeH » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:39 pm

I assumed you knew them, probably from the Clifford Cox days. I don't think I want to sidetrack this thread any further with my views on that.

Jason, I hope the car turns out really well for you. If you want some real power figures for it, I can recommend some other rolling roads for you. It doesn't really matter though, as long as it's quick enough for you to enjoy it, and it's reliable.


1992 Scala ABF - SOLD
1989 Scala track toy. Dormant
1986 GTX - Lunar mileage but still a good un
Mk1 Classic Touring Car Project...slowly does it
1984 1.6 GT Project. 69k In progress
1.6GL. 2 Owners, 60k. SOLD
1.6 GL - 100k miles -Back on the road!