Conflicting garage advice, been ripped off?

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frlrubett
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Conflicting garage advice, been ripped off?

Post by frlrubett » Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:58 pm

Not on here to name and shame but have had reason to think I have been taking for some sort of a ride by a garage, or I have another garage who is telling me (for what reason I do not know) untruths about a previous garages work.

I had my scirocco engine reconditioned about six months before lockdown. There was tappet noise which I had tried to solve but pressure tests by 'garage A' told me there was a compression issue with the bottom end. So I went to 'garage B' to have this investigated and fixed. 2k+ later I had a new engine (rebored, pistons, rings, gaskets etc) and a new clutch.

Since then, there has been a catalogue of issues which started the minute I collected the car. When I picked it up 'garage B' told me the tappets were a bit noisy but that was the breaking oil. I drove away with warning lights on the dashboard and a gear stick that was waggling as the linkages were not correctly installed. Went back to have this sorted, oil changed, came away with a better gear stick but still all the warning lights on the dash and still the damn tappets clacking away. So went back again. Had the engine pressure tested (the results were of no concern), some sensors changed and another oil change. Still lights on the dash and still the tappets. The the gear linkages went wrong again, could not get the car in any gear, starting to get a bit bored of the same damn faults.

So I called 'garage B' and his advice about sorting the electrical issue was to "remove the bulbs from the dash" was enough, I was fed up of paying money to not have things sorted properly I went back to 'garage A' just to see what the thought. They called me later in the day with the following observations.

- the linkages/bushes were worn out with many parts needing replacing.

- the clutch was 'on its way out'

- the gearbox oil had not been changed in possibly 10 years and there was a significant amount of water and debris in the box.

- the tappet noise was due to the oil pump not being able to sufficiently pull oil to the top of the engine.

- the electrics in the engine had a load of bare wires and bodge repairs.

So I drove down to 'garage A' and told them it was a new clutch (900 miles old, never driven in anger), that the car was never driven in wet weather and had been garaged for the last ten years and that the engine was a recon. Mechanic looked shocked and asked why did the recon the engine and not replace the oil pump, said that the clutch was that of a 30 year old car and was confused on why if the had pulled the engine out why they had not changed the gearbox oil. He also described the wiring as a 'piss take, no wonder you are having electrical issues'. He then advised me to go back to 'garage B' and have them fix what they started.


I don't really understand cars, which is why I pay people to do the work for me. I trust they will do a good job, I understand people make mistakes and cars from are 30 years old are going to have issues - part of the joy of owning one. This above, feels like someone is taking the piss. Do I call 'garage B' and say what I have been told or just move on and never give them the time of day again??

Oh and how bad would driving the car with the oil pump issue actually be?



GT_II
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Re: Conflicting garage advice, been ripped off?

Post by GT_II » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:29 pm

Is Garage B a member of any trade bodies with dispute resolution procedures? It sounds as though they have messed up your repair/recondition work, whether or not garage A is telling you the truth. Either way, it would be worth having a chat with Citizen's advice consumer helpline. The consumer rights legislation is quite specific on what traders must do if the work is not satisfactory. It sounds as though you have given them at least some opportunity to put things right. My feeling is they may either advise you to write to the garage pointing out the problems with their repair. and giving them a final chance to put it right, or advise you to get a third, fully independent expert report to facilitate legal action.
Last edited by GT_II on Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Village Idiots
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Re: Conflicting garage advice, been ripped off?

Post by Village Idiots » Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:26 am

I would have somebody who specialises in older car restorations and recommended by owners' clubs have a look at it. One of your garages clearly is not telling the truth or is incompetent.
Why did you go to garage B to have the work identified by garage A done? Price? Recommendation? Garage A too busy?
I have my restoration work done by Rust Republic in Nottingham even though I live in Lancashire, as they know their stuff and are old car enthusiasts. There are others similar whom other folk on here would recommend and may be closer to you.
I hate to think that there are dishonest people out there who will take advantage of someone who is honest and trusting and doesn't have the specialist knowledge.



frlrubett
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Re: Conflicting garage advice, been ripped off?

Post by frlrubett » Thu Mar 11, 2021 10:50 am

Village Idiots wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:26 am
I would have somebody who specialises in older car restorations and recommended by owners' clubs have a look at it. One of your garages clearly is not telling the truth or is incompetent.
Why did you go to garage B to have the work identified by garage A done? Price? Recommendation? Garage A too busy?
I have my restoration work done by Rust Republic in Nottingham even though I live in Lancashire, as they know their stuff and are old car enthusiasts. There are others similar whom other folk on here would recommend and may be closer to you.
I hate to think that there are dishonest people out there who will take advantage of someone who is honest and trusting and doesn't have the specialist knowledge.
Garage B is a specialist.



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unknownmale
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Re: Conflicting garage advice, been ripped off?

Post by unknownmale » Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:55 pm

My assumptions based on what you've said;

- The warning lights on your dash are oil pressure warnings
- Engine wasn't rebuild correctly/ And/or they did not prime the oil pump before first start (Typically you'd need to fill the pump with oil, some people use vaseline too) this avoids an air lock. If the engine has an air lock in the oil pump it wont get oil to the head of the engine, then you'll get the loud lifter noise and of course wear on the camshaft, bearings and other components.

I've done this exact thing myself, and it sounds like what's happening your end. If Garage B are telling you to take the bulb out to fix the problem, run a mile. You can't get more basic auto electronics than these cars, couldn't be easier to test. So this is your signal to run a mile.

There are dozens of specialist garages in London, and just south.

Out of interest, is the garage you're having issues with in South London?


- David

frlrubett
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Re: Conflicting garage advice, been ripped off?

Post by frlrubett » Thu Mar 11, 2021 7:59 pm

The engine warning lights come and go, I get a battery one, washer fluid low one, I've had the oil light on and the buzzer but that was 'fixed' wonder if they just removed the buzzer!

Don't want to publicly draw negative attention to a garage on a forum where they cannot have a say but if you have had issues with garages in the London/surrounding area send me a PM and we can compare! I am thinking of taking the car to The Phirm and just letting them have a few days on it giving an honest opinion and fixing the urgent bits and pieces.



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Re: Conflicting garage advice, been ripped off?

Post by mark1gls » Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:48 pm

What a nightmare for you, a couple of things, did the clutch feel different when you picked up the car, did you have a lighter clutch pedal?
There is no way to see if the clutch is on its way out without removing the gearbox as you can’t see it. It’s not a normal thing to change the gearbox oil if you are having the clutch changed as the gearbox oil is sealed in the gearbox, you would need to ask them to change the gearbox oil.

Are you in the AA as they have a legal advice team if you have the right membership and they might be able to help and get a report on the work you have had done.

If the oil pressure light is flashing away and the tappets are noisy I would not drive the car as you could cause damage to the engine if oil is not getting to the head and cam shaft.

Did you get a list form the garage who did the engine rebuild of all the parts fitted as you may see what’s been done?

I think The Prim are near London and a few members take there cars there as they are old school VW specialists, might be worth a call to see if they can help?
I can seem to find them on google so perhaps GTXTRA will pop up with a link as all his cars go to them.


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Re: Conflicting garage advice, been ripped off?

Post by mark1gls » Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:51 pm

Just seen your post above... The Phrim.. that’s why I can’t find it :-D


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WreckTangle
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Re: Conflicting garage advice, been ripped off?

Post by WreckTangle » Fri Mar 12, 2021 11:36 pm

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights ... iaH7X1ZckJ

This article might help you take forward your complaint and possibly recover some of your money. If you’re taking the car to another garage to get it fixed it might be worth talking to them beforehand about whether they would be prepared to provide you with a report that you could use to support legal action. Whilst many tradesmen are happy to criticise others’ work far fewer are prepared to commit their findings/opinions to writing.



frlrubett
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Re: Conflicting garage advice, been ripped off?

Post by frlrubett » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:31 am

mark1gls wrote:
Thu Mar 11, 2021 9:48 pm
What a nightmare for you, a couple of things, did the clutch feel different when you picked up the car, did you have a lighter clutch pedal?
There is no way to see if the clutch is on its way out without removing the gearbox as you can’t see it. It’s not a normal thing to change the gearbox oil if you are having the clutch changed as the gearbox oil is sealed in the gearbox, you would need to ask them to change the gearbox oil.

Are you in the AA as they have a legal advice team if you have the right membership and they might be able to help and get a report on the work you have had done.

If the oil pressure light is flashing away and the tappets are noisy I would not drive the car as you could cause damage to the engine if oil is not getting to the head and cam shaft.

Did you get a list form the garage who did the engine rebuild of all the parts fitted as you may see what’s been done?

I think The Prim are near London and a few members take there cars there as they are old school VW specialists, might be worth a call to see if they can help?
I can seem to find them on google so perhaps GTXTRA will pop up with a link as all his cars go to them.
Thanks Mark again for a detailed response and for everyone else's words of advice.

Clutch has always felt heavy, I drive a modern van day to day, so anything else feels like a brick.

The tappets, they start to make noise when the car is warm not when cold. Both garages have confirmed that the engine noise is from the tappets I just re read a load of messages from Garage B. 100 miles ago - "Changed oil pump in engine. Seems quieter. If its still making noise, I think its a sticking tappet". How hard is it to fix a noisy tappet lol? Is there anyone that could just point me in the right direction.

"Did you get a list form the garage who did the engine rebuild of all the parts fitted as you may see what’s been done?" I am chasing the receipt as there is also a gaurentee included on the engine to 20k miles.

I still am hoping garage B has not been at fault. To balance my first post, they have done some good work before and if garage A had not highlighted a few things I would have never questioned anything. Maybe my faith in humanity is my naivety.

Anyway, calls to new garage on Monday.



Yandards
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Re: Conflicting garage advice, been ripped off?

Post by Yandards » Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:59 am

None of that is any good and with the mixed information between each it's very difficult to work out was has an hasn't been done.

On the tappet front there is an American product called Seafoam, they seem to shove it into anything and it appears to work nicely at reducing tappet noise. Have a look on YouTube for a guy called 'Project Farm' he chucked some Seafoam into his farm pickup and that made a big difference to the tappet noise both at the time and in a follow up vid a year later.

Be interested to know what grade of oil has gone in the car as if they are ok when cold but not when hot that strikes me as the oil being too thin when warm and the subsequent pressure loss meaning an oil shortage at the cylinder head.


Yandards

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frlrubett
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Re: Conflicting garage advice, been ripped off?

Post by frlrubett » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:12 pm

Yandards wrote:
Sat Mar 13, 2021 9:59 am
None of that is any good and with the mixed information between each it's very difficult to work out was has an hasn't been done.

On the tappet front there is an American product called Seafoam, they seem to shove it into anything and it appears to work nicely at reducing tappet noise. Have a look on YouTube for a guy called 'Project Farm' he chucked some Seafoam into his farm pickup and that made a big difference to the tappet noise both at the time and in a follow up vid a year later.

Be interested to know what grade of oil has gone in the car as if they are ok when cold but not when hot that strikes me as the oil being too thin when warm and the subsequent pressure loss meaning an oil shortage at the cylinder head.
Ahh, thats interesting re oil grade. Will check the video.



frlrubett
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Re: Conflicting garage advice, been ripped off?

Post by frlrubett » Sat Mar 13, 2021 12:31 pm

Ha, that video is a great advert for Seafoam!



mark1gls
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Re: Conflicting garage advice, been ripped off?

Post by mark1gls » Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:13 pm

Strange they make noise when warm as usually they can tap when cold and the noise should go when warm. I find mine do it more when the oil is due for a change.

Do you know what oil they have used?

You can take the tappets apart and clean the old oil out and clean them or the easier way is buy a new set as they are not mega money.

They do need to be soaked in oil before fitting and you do need to remove the camshaft (needs to undone in the right order or it can snap! Guide in Haynes)

There’s a few on eBay and other retailers as not sure if you have the cork style rocker cover gasket as this kits comes with it all.
1st link I found so shop around.
Probably an hours work to fit in a garage.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Golf-MK1- ... SwAEJfzsnG


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